Atyrau Revisited
A month after the Atyrau incident, it is still being debated in the Turkish-Kazakh communities and there have been many negative articles and opinions from the Turkish side, with a clear animosity towards the Kazakhs. It is debatable whether this is a productive process, since Turkey and Kazakhstan have been countries close to each other that shared numerous fields of cooperation. There have been criticisms from Kazakhs in Turkey towards the Kazakh-Turkish communities for not stopping the situation get that far out of hand. An article was written by Yalcin Bayer, responding to a letter by Rahmatullah Cetin, a Kazakh-Turk, whic was published in the Turkish newspaper Hürriyet, making an assessment of the situation and the reasons for the incident. I have translated the most important parts of the article below.
The Inner Face of the Kazakhstan incidents
On the 20.10.2006, a fight has reached its peak. It included injuries on both sides, majority were Turkish citizens. A lot of negative and positive articles have been written on this subject. Both the Kazakhs and the Turks have been blamed for this incident. Even a Turkish-Kazakh hostility has been encouraged in some cases.
An Assessment of the Situation
- This incident is a separate incident and has happened the second time only in the framework of a firm.
- There are more than 500 Turkish firms in Kazakhstan and more than 10.000 Turkish citizens currently work in the country. 5-6 billion dollars worth construction work is being done and according to the official numbers, the annual trading volume amounts to 600 million dollars, whereas according to unofficial numbers (including official and “suitcase trade” numbers), this volume amounts to more than 1 billion dollars. In the following decade, this number will double or triple.
- This incident is not wanted or supported by both countries’ governments (Kazakhstan and Turkey). The fight between the citizens of two brother countries of Turkic origin cannot and should not ruin the relationship between the two countries.
- Furthermore, the best high schools in Kazakhstan are the Turkish high schools (close to 60); the Ahmet Yesevi University (where Turkey annually allocates 100 billion dollars) and the Suleyman Demirel University educate people that are important to both countries and thousands of students study in both countries. Moreover, each year hundreds of Kazakh students graduate from the Universities in Turkey and return back to their country.
Reasons for the Incidents
- Being the biggest Turkish construction firm, Enka has not given its workers the necessary education to secure the adaptation to the region and country. Especially people at the lower managing positions, who contact the Kazakhs, have not been given social, psycological and management courses, not even like Kazakh language lessons (at the same time, orientation courses on Turkey and Turks should be given to Kazakhs).
- There is a 2-3 times difference in wages between the Kazakh and the Turkish citizens. This condition should not be accepted by the Kazakh citizens. American or European engineers working in this region earn 6-15 thousand dollars and can work 28 days and return to their countries or rest the next 28 days. Why did the Kazakhs not say anything to this? Because these are the ones working in the firm BECHTEL and are really the employers. The subcontractor firm ENKA is the interlocutor for the employees, and it is responsible for Bechtel and has to become tough to get the work done sometimes. Actually this incident is a consequence of low wages in general.
- The sum which Enka receives or will receive for its work is very high and for 30-40 years Bechtel is its indisputable partner. This harmonious cooperation will continue in Kazakhstan. Especially some Russian and Kazakh firms, who could not receive a share from this big business falsely led the Kazakh citizens to an uprising against Enka. They want Enka and the Turkish citizens to leave, following the notion that they can do their job themselves, thus leading the competition for a bigger portion of the cake. However, they do not have the capacity to do this. Furthermore, Bechtel wants to work with Enka and employs more than 2.000 Turkish citizens. The main reason for the incidents is this.
- Moreover, the dishonesty of some Turkish citizens (so-called businessmen), who first came to Kazakhstan and their deception towards Kazakh partners and especially the leisure lifestyle of the ones living in Kazakhstan and their excessive flirting with Kazakh girls, generally led to an antipathy towards the Turkish citizens. This situation is widespread in Kazakhstan and that is why one has to be cautious to prevent similar incidents. However, we are careful not to put all Turkish citizens into this category. Let‘s be careful, let‘s not be deceived, let‘s be peaceful. As the saying goes: „Qol sinadi jeng ishinde qaladi; biytke ökpelep toningdi otka tastama!“ Long live Turkish-Kazakh brotherhood!
Yalcin Bayer
on November 23rd, 2006 at 10:36 am
“Moreover, the dishonesty of some Turkish citizens (so-called businessmen), who first came to Kazakhstan and their deception towards Kazakh partners and especially the leisure lifestyle of the ones living in Kazakhstan and their excessive flirting with Kazakh girls, generally led to an antipathy towards the Turkish citizens.”
Well yes, that is also a point. The randy and sometimes outright sleazy behavior of a substantial parts of the expats (Turkish and Western) pisses many people off. On the other hand, let’s face it: the local men are no better and these girls/women are also to blame; if Kazakh girls/women dress and behave more decently, then they don’t attract/encourage that sort of thing.
on November 25th, 2006 at 4:46 pm
The main reason for this was not the low wages, or that Turks nasty things about Kazakh girls.
In my view there are two reasons:
a) I studies in Turkey and have no animosity towards them. But while in Turkey I could always feel that condescending approach. They would treat Kazakhs as if we are not Kazakhs, but some minority underneath the Turks. That attitude is also present in KZ.
You don’t see that kind of treatment from other expats.
b) Generally the worker Turks coming to KZ are UNQUALIFIED and UNEDUCATED. Surely not everybody is like that, but I would say that they represent the majority.
I have friends who work in Turkish companies, and they say there are a lot of Turkish “welding experts” who have never done any welding. I give this example because while in Turkey my driving instructor (I went to driving courses) learning that I am from KZ said that he will be going to Kazakhstan to work as a welder. To my inquiry if he is a welder he said no. But added that he will learn once he is in Kazakhstan..
on November 26th, 2006 at 11:57 am
Yes, I agree that there is a condescending attitude towards Kazakhs and other ex-Soviet CAsians. However, let’s face it: a lot of it has been caused by their behavior (widespread alcoholism, the indecent women, … ) that inspires little respect.
“You don’t see that kind of treatment from other expats.”
Western expats will maybe no do it *publicly* but you just have to hear how they’re talking and thinking about local people when they are among themselves… It’s often even worse!!
on November 26th, 2006 at 7:20 pm
Well, yes. There is alcoholism, and maybe indecent woman. But, prostitution is something that is present everywhere, including Turkey. Decency is something very vague, everyone has his own standards. You should not treat others as second class just because you think they are indecent. There are many things in Ankara that could be classified as “indecent”.
And you also need to take into account the situation Kazakhstan came out of. 90s were very difficult years. Everything degenerated. When you have no money, government has no money to pay the workers and police. Alcoholism and hooliganism become widespread.
I wrote that I saw that kind of treatment even in Turkey. I am not an alcoholic or hooligan.
I suspect other expats do not talk about local people in nice words. The problems is that kind of attitude (my nation is better than yours!) is everywhere around the world. People do not want to understand other people, people that different from them. They better mock others. I have even been told that Scottish people mock Italians that they are useless. And Italians mock others. And so on. You cannot do anything about what they say to each other. But I can and do demand to be treated with respect to me and my ethnic identity.
on November 27th, 2006 at 11:22 am
Yes Nurlan. I know that. I worked in your country in the mid-90s and saw the general degeneration. And I think you people deserve better. However, if the Kazakhs want to get respected they’ll have to strengthen their identity instead of imitating the West and the ‘novii Russkii’. And the best way to do that is through Islam: http://neweurasia.net/?p=532
on November 27th, 2006 at 5:52 pm
Ataman, I don’t know which way our society should go, but it in my view religion is not one of them. People should be free to practice their religion, but I don’t think it should be the bases for the society’s development.
We might be imitating west, but I don’t think we are imitating the “novii Russkii”. Thats all part of the process, and considering current state of things, we are not faring bad. Surely democracy is still far away, but I think we will come to it, sooner or later.
on November 28th, 2006 at 9:40 am
Nurlan, you may be imitating the West but have you ever wondered if the West will accept you and take you seriously? It will *never*. On the contrary.
on November 28th, 2006 at 5:37 pm
We are not trying to get accepted by anyone or any country. We are what we are and we will simply go our own way. Certainly there is no need in inventing the wheel second time, so definitely some things can be borrowed from West. Some things will be our own. At least I hope we will do it like that.
on November 28th, 2006 at 8:27 pm
From what I’ve read so far I can say the following:
I can confirm the condescending attitude towards the Central Asians in Turkey, yet I don’t know how far this is connected to their “indecency”, since like you said, this is present everywhere, even in Turkey. As a matter of fact, I have heard that there is this anti-Turkish trend; people identify themselves more as either Central Asian or from the Caucasus.
As for the acception by the West; I think there is an attempt to become accepted by the West; I mean isn’t this one of the main criteria to survive in the international system and a globalised world? However, I do not think that people should completely become westernised, since this would not be productive, especially for such a country like Kazakhstan, which is culturally such a rich country. I think a mid-way between West and the country’s own identity needs to be found. Other countries do this by disseminating their own cultural centres around the globe (i.e. Germany with its Goethe Institut or Spain’s Cervantes, though I am aware that these are western countries, but this isn’t the point). I think this would be a good way to make contact with the West and pass a cultural heritage on.
on November 29th, 2006 at 10:26 am
OK Nurlan and Özgecan, that are nice theories but look around… What is left of a specific Kazakh culture? Almost nothing. What came in its place? Sorry, but st. like an imitation of a) the Moscovite ‘novii Russkii’ and b) often the worst of the West.
on November 29th, 2006 at 12:17 pm
First of all everybody has to agree that the mass scuffle on 20th of October is a Carnage of Turkish worker and the unexpected attach was planned long ago. We have to condemn the people who savaged the worker inside the container.
The owner , the manager and engineers of the company named above are all stupid to bring unskilled welder to Kazakhstan to pay 3 times more money then the local worker not the mention the freight and work permit fee. If you bring 2000 worker from one place for a short period time it could probably happen to seep from unskilled workers but they could survive maksimum 1 week or two. I personnely do not pay a penny more to worker if they are making same work.
Will you be accepted to work in Iraq with 3 times more money then your current wage. I bet non of the local workers will accept to work in a place that you have life risk. American are getting 10-15 times more money then standard kazakh engineer. Nobody could claim anything about that issue because they are the Boss of area.
They have been kicked out from country long ago if they does have they curent passport. It is all most impossible substain an oil investment such an amount in a froeign country unless you have very strong passport.
One should accept that there is a hostile attidute in Tengiz to all worker from Shimkent,Aktobe,Turkey, Philipness and India. If the anger will contunie they will attack to English and American and the other workers will leave the country but the low income will continue incontrary to 8.300 USD per capita. I am living a 5 floor apartment in Kulsary and we do not have potable water since 2003.
on November 29th, 2006 at 6:23 pm
“If the anger will contunie they will attack to English and American and the other workers will leave the country but the low income will continue ”
Actually, I also think that violent outbursts against Westerners in Kazakhstan and other parts of CA are only a matter of time.
I remember that in the mid-90s, everyone and everything coming from the West had some kind of an aura: better, more civilised and what all; theer was also this naïve expectation that the West would ‘help’ and ’save’ these societies. Which was naïve of course.
That is gone. People are disappointed — the ‘fallen angel syndrome’ –and I must say that the sleazy and randy behavior of part of the Western expats has gone great lengths to stain the image of Westerners in general.
on November 29th, 2006 at 11:20 pm
While I haven’t been in the region during the mid-1990s, I feel that at least for Kazakhstan, a growing professionalism and further economic development lead to quite a different expat scene now than there was some years ago.
I would guess that 80+% of the expats there now behave well and “do not corrupt Kazakh society”. I mean it of course depends where you go. While I don’t want to presuppose which venues you frequented, the behaviour constantly described by you is to me more reminiscent of indeed very sleezy nightclubs. And I mean, you don’t have to go there. They’re sleezy everywhere, from Bangkok to Almaty, Berlin to Prague.
Myself speaking for a younger generation of visitors to the Central Asian region, I have to say that maybe your oft-cited indecency and moral corruption came (comes) from beer-bellied oil workers.
Ah and one thing:
I mean, maybe beer-bellied Western or Turkish oil workers can’t handle attractive women dressed ‘indecently’, but to argue this way is essentially blaming women for the injustice they’re being subjected to. It’s actually kinda sickening.
on November 30th, 2006 at 12:04 am
I tend to agree with Ben’s last point. For your vision of an Islamic future for Kazakhstan to work, you would definitely have to reject democracy as a “Western” ideal, because no woman is going to vote for an Islamist system that attributes the piggishness of men to the attire of women.
That logic is base rationalization designed to push blame from one group on to the next, no different from people suing McDonalds for creating obesity by running commercials that make their burgers look so tasty. Sometimes I forget that reassigning responsibility for our faults on to others is a universal phenomenon, not a distinctly American one.
Furthermore, your lambasting of the “West” in general is easy because it is so simplistic. Maybe you could tell us what you mean by that exactly. Are you saying that Kazakhs shouldn’t imitate the behavior of certain expats who go around with prostitutes all the time? Great, who doesn’t agree with that? Or are you saying that other principles, like free speech for example, are somehow inherently Western and should therefore not be adopted by other cultures?
But so far, your comments on this and other posts seem to add up to an incredibly simplistic statement: Central Asia shouldn’t imitate an ill-defined concept of “the West” because West = naughty expats who will never respect them anyway.
It’s easy to criticize the West and glorify social Islam when you get to define both terms however you want. I think the Kazakhs commenting on this post have already demonstrated that the reality is much more nuanced than the dichotomy you paint.
on November 30th, 2006 at 11:20 am
“While I don’t want to presuppose which venues you frequented, the behaviour constantly described by you is to me more reminiscent of indeed very sleezy nightclubs.”
A whole range of venues going from expat dinners at private houses (where you hear how they talk about the local people) and field offices in the rayons (with expats who are drunk all the time) to cafés and, indeed, sleazy nightclubs in Almaty (of course I’ve seen these — how can I judge/have a complete view otherwise?).
I never said that the sleazy expat is a *massive* phenomenon. Yet it is there, it is *conspicious* and it has seriously stained the image of bona fide expats and mixed Western-Sovok couples at that.
“Myself speaking for a younger generation of visitors to the Central Asian region, I have to say that maybe your oft-cited indecency and moral corruption came (comes) from beer-bellied oil workers.”
Yes, and also from that whole EU/TACIS consultant fauna and a good chunck of the diplo corps.
“(…) that attributes the piggishness of men to the attire of women.(…) I mean, maybe beer-bellied Western or Turkish oil workers can’t handle attractive women dressed ‘indecently’, but to argue this way is essentially blaming women for the injustice they’re being subjected to. It’s actually kinda sickening.”
:))))) And why’s that? It does not takes a PhD. in Social Psychology to know that certain ways of dressing are only to sexually provoke. And if you chose to dress and behave in certain ways then you attract the pigs, period. It’s not difficult to understand, no? Well, maybe yes. But then again, you’re still young idealists.
“But so far, your comments on this and other posts seem to add up to an incredibly simplistic statement: Central Asia shouldn’t imitate an ill-defined concept of “the West” because West = naughty expats who will never respect them anyway.“
Indeed. And it’s not as simplistic as you think. I just *formulate* it simple for the sake of clarity.
“It’s easy to criticize the West and glorify social Islam when you get to define both terms however you want.”
Then maybe carefully re-read my comment and my article on the subject.
on January 6th, 2007 at 9:24 am
“OK Nurlan and Özgecan, that are nice theories but look around… What is left of a specific Kazakh culture? Almost nothing. What came in its place? Sorry, but st. like an imitation of a) the Moscovite ‘novii Russkii’ and b) often the worst of the West. ”
u should learn more on kazakh culture rather than making these kind of statements…
and…. not only kazakh people critisize bad behaviour of turkish people. many russian ladies suffered from turkish guys.
russian prostitution is very high in demand, cause
1) it is not restricted by turkish authorities in the form of the law,e.g. visa regulations …. try to develop the logic why it is happening …
on June 23rd, 2007 at 9:27 pm
“1) it is not restricted by turkish authorities in the form of the law,e.g. visa regulations …. try to develop the logic why it is happening …”
Augul i totally agree you.
Definitly correct approach to the topic, the rest of the conversation which you people are talking here couldn’t see the problem yet.
Goverment should not let the blue caps go outside of the country to work. Since these people are usually has no education at all, and they are representing the one nation. And in such country like Kazakhstan which has no impression before with this nation may cause some bad influence.
If we return back to article topic, i’m wondering why this such big company is carrying out all the blue caps from one country to other country, isn’t there any blue caps in Kazakhstan?
Actually this issue caused because of this company who is not thingking cleaverly and government is just supporting him.