Augul i totally agree you.
Definitly correct approach to the topic, the rest of the conversation which you people are talking here couldn’t see the problem yet.

Goverment should not let the blue caps go outside of the country to work. Since these people are usually has no education at all, and they are representing the one nation. And in such country like Kazakhstan which has no impression before with this nation may cause some bad influence.
If we return back to article topic, i’m wondering why this such big company is carrying out all the blue caps from one country to other country, isn’t there any blue caps in Kazakhstan?
Actually this issue caused because of this company who is not thingking cleaverly and government is just supporting him.

u should learn more on kazakh culture rather than making these kind of statements…
and…. not only kazakh people critisize bad behaviour of turkish people. many russian ladies suffered from turkish guys.
russian prostitution is very high in demand, cause
1) it is not restricted by turkish authorities in the form of the law,e.g. visa regulations …. try to develop the logic why it is happening …

A whole range of venues going from expat dinners at private houses (where you hear how they talk about the local people) and field offices in the rayons (with expats who are drunk all the time) to cafés and, indeed, sleazy nightclubs in Almaty (of course I’ve seen these — how can I judge/have a complete view otherwise?).

I never said that the sleazy expat is a *massive* phenomenon. Yet it is there, it is *conspicious* and it has seriously stained the image of bona fide expats and mixed Western-Sovok couples at that.

“Myself speaking for a younger generation of visitors to the Central Asian region, I have to say that maybe your oft-cited indecency and moral corruption came (comes) from beer-bellied oil workers.”

Yes, and also from that whole EU/TACIS consultant fauna and a good chunck of the diplo corps.

“(…) that attributes the piggishness of men to the attire of women.(…) I mean, maybe beer-bellied Western or Turkish oil workers can’t handle attractive women dressed ‘indecently’, but to argue this way is essentially blaming women for the injustice they’re being subjected to. It’s actually kinda sickening.”

:))))) And why’s that? It does not takes a PhD. in Social Psychology to know that certain ways of dressing are only to sexually provoke. And if you chose to dress and behave in certain ways then you attract the pigs, period. It’s not difficult to understand, no? Well, maybe yes. But then again, you’re still young idealists.

“But so far, your comments on this and other posts seem to add up to an incredibly simplistic statement: Central Asia shouldn’t imitate an ill-defined concept of “the West” because West = naughty expats who will never respect them anyway.“

Indeed. And it’s not as simplistic as you think. I just *formulate* it simple for the sake of clarity.

“It’s easy to criticize the West and glorify social Islam when you get to define both terms however you want.”

Then maybe carefully re-read my comment and my article on the subject.

That logic is base rationalization designed to push blame from one group on to the next, no different from people suing McDonalds for creating obesity by running commercials that make their burgers look so tasty. Sometimes I forget that reassigning responsibility for our faults on to others is a universal phenomenon, not a distinctly American one.

Furthermore, your lambasting of the “West” in general is easy because it is so simplistic. Maybe you could tell us what you mean by that exactly. Are you saying that Kazakhs shouldn’t imitate the behavior of certain expats who go around with prostitutes all the time? Great, who doesn’t agree with that? Or are you saying that other principles, like free speech for example, are somehow inherently Western and should therefore not be adopted by other cultures?

But so far, your comments on this and other posts seem to add up to an incredibly simplistic statement: Central Asia shouldn’t imitate an ill-defined concept of “the West” because West = naughty expats who will never respect them anyway.

It’s easy to criticize the West and glorify social Islam when you get to define both terms however you want. I think the Kazakhs commenting on this post have already demonstrated that the reality is much more nuanced than the dichotomy you paint.

I would guess that 80+% of the expats there now behave well and “do not corrupt Kazakh society”. I mean it of course depends where you go. While I don’t want to presuppose which venues you frequented, the behaviour constantly described by you is to me more reminiscent of indeed very sleezy nightclubs. And I mean, you don’t have to go there. They’re sleezy everywhere, from Bangkok to Almaty, Berlin to Prague.

Myself speaking for a younger generation of visitors to the Central Asian region, I have to say that maybe your oft-cited indecency and moral corruption came (comes) from beer-bellied oil workers.

Ah and one thing:

…and these girls/women are also to blame; if Kazakh girls/women dress and behave more decently, then they don’t attract/encourage that sort of thing.

I mean, maybe beer-bellied Western or Turkish oil workers can’t handle attractive women dressed ‘indecently’, but to argue this way is essentially blaming women for the injustice they’re being subjected to. It’s actually kinda sickening.

Actually, I also think that violent outbursts against Westerners in Kazakhstan and other parts of CA are only a matter of time.

I remember that in the mid-90s, everyone and everything coming from the West had some kind of an aura: better, more civilised and what all; theer was also this naïve expectation that the West would ‘help’ and ’save’ these societies. Which was naïve of course.

That is gone. People are disappointed — the ‘fallen angel syndrome’ –and I must say that the sleazy and randy behavior of part of the Western expats has gone great lengths to stain the image of Westerners in general.

The owner , the manager and engineers of the company named above are all stupid to bring unskilled welder to Kazakhstan to pay 3 times more money then the local worker not the mention the freight and work permit fee. If you bring 2000 worker from one place for a short period time it could probably happen to seep from unskilled workers but they could survive maksimum 1 week or two. I personnely do not pay a penny more to worker if they are making same work.

Will you be accepted to work in Iraq with 3 times more money then your current wage. I bet non of the local workers will accept to work in a place that you have life risk. American are getting 10-15 times more money then standard kazakh engineer. Nobody could claim anything about that issue because they are the Boss of area.

They have been kicked out from country long ago if they does have they curent passport. It is all most impossible substain an oil investment such an amount in a froeign country unless you have very strong passport.

One should accept that there is a hostile attidute in Tengiz to all worker from Shimkent,Aktobe,Turkey, Philipness and India. If the anger will contunie they will attack to English and American and the other workers will leave the country but the low income will continue incontrary to 8.300 USD per capita. I am living a 5 floor apartment in Kulsary and we do not have potable water since 2003.

I can confirm the condescending attitude towards the Central Asians in Turkey, yet I don’t know how far this is connected to their “indecency”, since like you said, this is present everywhere, even in Turkey. As a matter of fact, I have heard that there is this anti-Turkish trend; people identify themselves more as either Central Asian or from the Caucasus.

As for the acception by the West; I think there is an attempt to become accepted by the West; I mean isn’t this one of the main criteria to survive in the international system and a globalised world? However, I do not think that people should completely become westernised, since this would not be productive, especially for such a country like Kazakhstan, which is culturally such a rich country. I think a mid-way between West and the country’s own identity needs to be found. Other countries do this by disseminating their own cultural centres around the globe (i.e. Germany with its Goethe Institut or Spain’s Cervantes, though I am aware that these are western countries, but this isn’t the point). I think this would be a good way to make contact with the West and pass a cultural heritage on.